Episode 10: Le son sauvage w. Anne-F Jacques
Made it to 10. We made it
Justin:to 10. And we have a very, very, very exciting episode 10 ahead of us. I have no idea what's gonna happen, but I feel excited about it.
leon:Yeah. We have the great pleasure of welcoming to the show guest host, Anjak, amazing Amazing. Artist. Amazing amazing sound artist. Friend from a long time, like, way back.
leon:And also, as a side note, I have the privilege of of paying studio rent to this person.
Anne F:I'm your landlord, which is really not.
leon:But Welcome to the show. Thanks so much for accepting the invitation.
Anne F:Thank you. That's really fun.
leon:Yeah. It's been it's been a number of of years since since we met, I think.
Anne F:Yes. Which is which is a testimony to our youths, our collective youth. The outgoing outgoing preaching news gang.
Justin:It's great.
leon:Man, this is gonna be great. This is, like, heading
Anne F:in the
leon:right direction. Yeah. I I I remember the first time I ever met you was I think it was a a show, a show at. Shout out to
Anne F:Oh, yeah.
leon:Crew. Yeah. And you were playing with Nicolas as Mini Bluc. And that was the first time I've ever seen that, and it was instantly my favorite band. Like, on the spot.
Justin:It was
leon:so wonderful. I mean, YouTube brought something that I think we were looking for in experimental music, like just this sense of playfulness and joy and just exploration. It was just so wonderful to witness in that setting. So I was really, really excited to to to meet you and and get to know your your practice.
Anne F:Yeah. Well, I mean, likewise, it's true that these years, which which was a very, very beginning for me of starting to do anything
leon:Yeah.
Anne F:Sound related. But, yeah, there was a big crossing of many scenes at the same time. Like, I remember Keen Lee also an amazing Jacob performance that I almost lost my job as a sound tech at that bar because of it. And, Neil, many performances of yours too. But just like the the the mixing also of different scenes and genres and
Justin:and Yeah.
Anne F:And that not never getting in the way of actually really being amazed by other people's work. Right? Like, just following the sense of experimentation and risk taking, I would say. Mhmm. Yeah.
Anne F:A bit what we had in in common at that moment. Yeah.
Jacob:God. Liri Lemise Fagosh just just popped into my mind. I haven't heard that place in ten years and just everything came back now. So you're god.
Justin:I have a great chemistry ghost story because I live around the corner from it, and I operate a couple pinballs in the in the place. And I know them quite well. And the new owner that bought it after the pandemic was I I was so touched by this. It was so because the sign had been damaged, like, the like, been broken, the outdoor sign, and he was just going off to me about how much work he was putting into reproducing the original sign and making it. Mhmm.
Justin:Yeah. This is so props out shout out to Sean for for respecting the history of
Jacob:the So you're doing this you're doing a sound there. I forgot about that. That you
Anne F:were Yeah. Yeah. That's when we got these gigs. Like, I was Oh, fantastic. Years, I was the the sound tech mostly for, you know, teenager metal bands from the suburbs.
Anne F:Yeah. Yeah. Training as a sound tech. But yeah. And that's how I kind of, you know, negotiated to have this Sunday nights because nothing's happening on Sunday nights.
Anne F:And we started putting on these shows, which is why you may remember the first shows, like, we would try and play true people playing foosball or, you know Yeah. Yeah. Whatever. Just going on with their lives.
Jacob:Yeah. Yeah.
Anne F:Yeah. And and yeah. There was a fair amount of controversy among the staff at my my evenings.
leon:Always a good sign. But that that was a long time ago. I mean, you're you're you're still obviously, very active now. I think you played a show last week, last weekend.
Anne F:I I did. There was that festival initial shot.
leon:Right.
Anne F:Yeah. Which is kind of that yeah. Which which is that noise festival. So I I tried my best to play a noise set, which is yeah. But, yeah, it was one of these amazing noise festivals where they packed as many acts as possible.
Anne F:Like, there was an afternoon show, there was nine sets, and they actually stayed on schedule.
leon:Oh, wow.
Anne F:You know, where everybody's, like, super tight to a point, 15 out, next set. I actually love that.
leon:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For
Anne F:sure. Overload us. Everything.
leon:That's amazing. I just in my mind, I just picture the all the everyone just coming with suitcases and just like opening up the suitcase, playing the the wires in the suitcase, and then like closing them really fast and and leaving the the the stage.
Anne F:Yeah. In fact, there was a complex kind of setup of rotating tables because everybody used tables beside me, which was very impractical. I understand the point of using a table. I just don't like it. But so everybody was like, I'm just playing, then the next person played, then you you rotate the table.
leon:Right.
Justin:It's kind
Anne F:of a beautiful Yeah. Yeah. Table ballet.
Justin:Musical chairs. Yeah.
Jacob:Bring your own table. Bring your
Anne F:own That's right.
leon:I'm actually curious because what you're saying about the table is totally true in your case because oftentimes they're playing with stuff that's, like, really unruly, like, just huge, objects and very big contraptions. So how how did you manage, that this time? Yeah.
Anne F:I I mean, I did not manage it very well. I just kind of found my stuff on the monitor that was beside the stage just thinking I would drag the stuff, but without thinking that this is a noise show, so audience is gonna, you know, come very close to the stage. So when it was my time to play, my shit was kind of everywhere. But that set is I mean, half of what I do in a performance is fixing my stuff or piling up my stuff. You know?
Anne F:So I so I did that. It was just a little bit more a little bit more involved than I intended. But yeah.
leon:Yeah. That's fine. But you're also you've also been touring a lot, I think. I mean, playing in other parts of of the in other communities elsewhere in the world. So and you also I think you published something on Le Lapse as well, if I'm not mistaken.
Anne F:Yes.
leon:That's true. Maggie Duis' publishing. But how how was that experience of of did you write was it a book of written prose, or was it something else?
Anne F:Well, it it was definitively written, and it's not verse. So, yes, I guess we can call it written prose. I mean, I I I did it on Maridou's invitation, and I like, that book would not have happened without invitation. You know, like many things
Justin:Yes.
Anne F:We create things for for specific context, and so that was that. And I discussed with her a couple of possibilities, but so in the end, it's just a a series of pages, let's say, just about objects and materials in my practice, but how I relate to some objects and materials. I find them, how they appeared in my life, what I do with them, why I'm I developed some obsessions with some things or not, failures, such things. Yeah.
Justin:It was nice. I was in the CCA for, like, a book launch not long ago, and and your book was very prominently displayed, and I was delighted to see it there. It was great. They're giving you some love. It was awesome.
Justin:I was Yeah. Thought that was great. Made me really happy to see.
Anne F:Yeah. That that it was really fun to do, and it kinda made me understand. You know? I mean, it's funny because, yes, it ends up being a book, but there's a lot of cheating in that. Like, we also made it a bilingual version so more people can read it.
Anne F:But also this way, it it kind of is thickened off to pass as a book because that's the perfect version. It's really it's about 14 pages. You know? But
Justin:Some photos in there. You know? It gets big. It gets big.
Anne F:It It's big. But it was interesting to to for me to learn how much it's that's also a collaborative project. Meaning, the invitation by Marie Doos, the fact that she read it, that she gave me some feedback, some of some of which I accepted, some of which I was like, no. I'm keeping my bad French in there. I'm not gonna put the correct word.
Anne F:But, you know, all that kind of back and forth, how much it creates something. And since then, I've been trying to be like, oh, I wrote the book. Why not write another one? But, no. If if there's no kind of pushback or context or whatever, it it doesn't actually happen.
Anne F:So that was really interesting for me to understand how that's you know, like everything we we do, it's it's kinda part of a a kind of system or network, and that's what makes it possible. Right? Like
leon:Yeah. For sure. That's great.
Jacob:So I'm looking for someone to write Ulysses part two. How about you write? How How about how about it?
Anne F:Yeah. That's it. And then and then and then write me emails and be like, I'm waiting. What's up?
Jacob:Where's where's Ulysses part two?
Anne F:Yeah. I seem to need that.
leon:Should we get on to some music? Yeah. That would be great.
Anne F:Let's do that.
leon:I think guest host gets the first slot. So that way you end.
Anne F:Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm gonna start with I'm gonna start with with this.
Anne F:Let's go. K.
Justin:Oh, I didn't want that to stop.
leon:Why did that stop?
Anne F:Was really pretty. And I kinda debated with myself because it's it's a trickery in in the version I have. I could have played the whole a side when I consider doing that. I was like, well, you know, there's silences between the tracks. Maybe not.
leon:But
Justin:It's it's so good. What is this? I'd like, it's really amazing.
Anne F:Yeah. This is a project where a band, the collective called Glorias Navales from Chile. They they have made a handful of albums and a couple of live recordings too. And it's amaze like, it it it all has this kind of and, I mean, that short is pretty that that track is pretty short, but it's kinda long form improvised, but based on a kinda melodic structure thing, but also very very gritty, very kinda very sounding. That one is from an album called Carta Marine Tucker.
Anne F:So letter to Marine Tucker.
Jacob:And
Anne F:you really feel, right, that
Jacob:Yeah. Yeah. You feel it.
Anne F:Yeah. That underground influence, but then they also say that they're very influenced by single chord Mapuche instruments. Mhmm. Like, native instruments from from Chile. So, like, you have that kind of mix of just kind of single-minded, repetitive, yet weirdly melodic kind of basis.
Anne F:It's really
leon:pretty. At first, I was wondering I didn't know if it was a band or if it was, like, tape music or something. Right. Because there's there's something in the the there the the cycles their cycles that that's kinda lopsided. It's not like perfect repetitions.
leon:So I really thought it was like turntable music at first. Yeah. But maybe that's just my mind being fucked up. But but that's that was kind of the impression I had. And then when I I actually kinda looked them up and saw that it was a a band playing with, like, you know, guitars and and instruments and amps and stuff, I was like, oh, okay.
leon:Wow. This is, like, all organic. And, of course, it sounds really organic, but there's something in the in the yeah. Just in the in the structure that's that is somehow yeah. That that reminded me of, like, tape music.
leon:Mhmm.
Justin:I mean, there's also something with the recording quality that really does that, like, where, like, the recording quality is actually adding so much harmonic interest to it. Like, that's I'm just like, wow. It sounds so cool. Like, it's it's a it sounds very intentional and, you know, probably is on some level, but it's, like, it's just it adds so much accidental wonderfulness. It's so great.
Jacob:It really captures also the velvet underground pacing. Like, it's amazing how it's undeniable, the kind of that pacing that
Anne F:Yes.
Jacob:Kind of it it's really Maureen Tucker. Like, it really feels like Yeah.
Justin:That Yeah.
Jacob:It's like you you can put a brand name to it or something. But it's like, if you go too fast, it's not it. If you go too slow, it's not it. It just has this like it's it's like right there. It still makes that, You know?
Jacob:And if
Justin:you play it too consistently, it's definitely not it. You know? It's definitely it. It's definitely not it. Like, the one is just wandering all
Jacob:over the place. Yeah. So it's a nice homage. It's really beautiful, actually. It's too bad.
Jacob:It's not like a it's, like, thirty minutes long. It's too bad it's not longer. It really gets you really into it.
Justin:Yeah. I was really excited when I saw the track record. I was like, you're getting the I'm like, just getting it. I'm like, okay. I'm gonna settle in.
Anne F:Oh, yeah. But I but it's it's worth listening to the whole thing, frankly, because because they change instrumentation. There's also a lot of kind of flutes in your intercollective, but it like, same thing. It's kinda repetitive, relentless.
Justin:Yeah. I mean
Anne F:You know, two or three notes maximum. No more than that. Yeah. Wonderful.
leon:It's it was a it was a nice throwback also to to a certain scene that was happening at the esoteric times also with the the free folk stuff Yeah. Emerging a little bit everywhere.
Anne F:I I think yeah. I I mean, it's it's a band I've been listening to a lot, but also it somehow it kinda made me think about you. All you. Mhmm. Because also I'm I'm I'm actually quite difficult with anything that has notes in it.
Anne F:Like, I'm I'm not I have very strange standards. I'm like, yeah. This this I really really like, and I think you'll
leon:like it. It's like, yeah. Okay. This this other note, I don't like so much.
Justin:Oh, shit. No. I mean, if you have more than four, it's it's not music anymore.
Anne F:It's like
leon:I'm music anymore.
Jacob:And I just wanna I just wanna at least I'm speaking to myself, I won't play anything with notes.
Anne F:I promise.
Justin:Prepared some notes, some not notes, not knowing what direction it was gonna go, but now I know. So I'm ready.
leon:That's all all timbre. All timbre. That's it.
Jacob:It's great. No notes.
leon:No notes. Great.
Justin:This is the no note episode. It's good. No note episode. Yeah. It's great.
leon:It's great. Who's up next? I'm actually kinda super nervous now. The stakes are so high.
Justin:Stakes are high. Jacob, do you wanna go? Or, like, I got Yeah.
Jacob:Yeah. Sure. I've got something with notes. Great. No no notes.
Jacob:I've got no notes. Let me just let me just see if I can find something with no notes here. Okay. We'll try we'll try this. Okay.
Jacob:Something experimental, no notes. Here we go.
Justin:Experimental.
Jacob:So that was weird. So that was Joris Stelarete. I don't know my Dutch. Called Envelope. And it's I think it's from, like, a compilation or his best words, like, box set of a lot of his tape music.
Jacob:This is tape music, in fact, which is nutty sounding to me that it's tape music. Yeah. It's yeah.
leon:I I was I was looking at the the notes on the release, and I think this might actually be tape music with this live ensemble.
Jacob:Is it? Yeah.
leon:Which is also makes it even nuttier in my Yeah. In my opinion. That was great. I I love experimental music that sounds like Looney Tunes. It's like my it's my favorite kind.
Justin:And you never know, like, I mean, the super academic stuff really goes there sometimes. You know, you get all that,
Jacob:like, Scott
Justin:kinda say, weeble, wobble, weeble, wobble. It's
Jacob:The one that I love about this one is just those those, like, spaces of no sound. Just these are pauses that just feels like what's gonna happen next. It's just like what and you've got you've got this anticipation for everything that just happens next. So it's got a wonderful madness to it too, which reminds me a little bit I think it was like a recording of climax Golden Twins or am I missing it? And it starts off like that as well.
Justin:It's got this, like, crazy. Totally. Yeah. I mean, I think I might have it queued up for the episode. So it's It's fair.
Justin:I know exactly what you're talking about.
Jacob:Yeah. You know, it goes like one, two, three, four. Anyway, that's my picnic.
leon:Love it. That was great.
Anne F:Yeah. Amazing. And I forget.
Jacob:I should mention sorry. I should mention I forget the name of that label, but they they release mostly actually Belgian tape music. Lot of Oh, wow. Different recordings. I forget the name.
Jacob:Maybe we'll put it in, like, the in the notes or something like that. But, for those interested in tape music from from that part of the world, I guess, from Belgium, which I don't know what the hell comes out of Belgium, but a lot of tape music. So and this one's one of them.
Justin:Pretty fantastic. There also was reading about some proto techno track on that label, and I was, like, trying to get from that to that guy making on that on that record, like, on that compilation. And I'm like, oh, yeah. How do you get from there to there? I love that.
Justin:You know? That's fantastic. And apparently too, the guy like, I love that. That's a guy that's totally self taught and is outside of the academic tradition. And that's so cool.
Justin:Like, I love that that somebody's making that music, you know, like outside of that tradition entirely. Mhmm. Like, how the hell does he pay for
leon:it? All that tape.
Justin:Yeah. All those people. All the musicians, man.
leon:It's crazy.
Justin:It's a lot. Time, studio time. Like, I'm like, wow. That's awesome. He's got a job as an insurance salesman or something.
Jacob:Is it actually a live band that plays with him? Or is it a recording of a live band and it's mixed, you think?
leon:It looks well, I don't know. I just looked at the the notes for that release and it said that it compiled a lot of his solo tape stuff and performances of tapes
Jacob:Oh, with?
leon:With players. Yeah. But it doesn't say exactly who's playing what.
Jacob:Because at some point, like, it's all that kinda slows down. Whole time is playing It's kinda, like, slow down. Yeah.
leon:Yeah. So great. So, Leon,
Justin:if you can I go? Because I got something.
leon:Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go for it.
Justin:I got I got two directions I can go here. No notes or a lot of notes with no space. With lots of space. Because I realized that you can have a lot of notes if you have a lot of space between them, and then it's not like
Jacob:notes. It's different. Yes.
Justin:So I'm gonna go with the notes in no space, and I particularly love the liner notes this record, which I'll talk about afterwards. And, also, I'm so excited about the scene that this comes from because it feels a bit like the era that we were in, but from another country in now. So one second. I will play it. So that is Ake.
Justin:I'm I'm sure my pronunciation is wrong from the self titled record with their artist name. I love this label from China so much. This is Subjam. The description's really worth reading. So Akke is a typical self empowered avant garde artist of today's China.
Justin:She start to play music with her totally unskilled violin and a desire to being, exist, and plenty of still time as the only valuable property of many people. In around 2016, she's now part of the no wave, new wave of performance art and the newly refreshing Flexus Spirit. This album is mostly a collection of recent spontaneous performances recordings. They're personal, basic, universal, and always supported by a firm concept. I love this description someone wrote about the record.
Justin:It's a hybrid, and it could become a model of contemporary experimental music. It's music that anyone can make. It's music that anyone can come up with, but this is music that no one else wants to come up with.
Jacob:Super cool.
Justin:Yeah. I love and the the rest of the records, like, there's one track where where she's just tearing down a wall and screaming and, like, breaking a wall apart. And it's, like, it's super interesting. And so many other really amazing amazing things on this label. And I love it when you find a band camp trope of, like, all this stuff where you're, like, it's you and eight other people that are buying all the records.
Justin:Like like, it's fantastic. But, yeah,
leon:it's a
Justin:really, really cool scene. And I think that actually had all the notes, like, every single one. So so hopefully, it was okay.
Jacob:That was wonderful.
Anne F:Yeah. More than okay. I love that. I mean, that's that's the funny thing is that in in that whole scene, in a way, their weirdest, weirdest records are not even the ones when they're screaming and tearing down the wall.
Justin:It's just
Anne F:me if they kinda pretend to play something Yeah. Maybe musical and then the strangeness is even more kind of obvious. Yeah. I I I love this.
leon:Yeah. It was really beautiful. It totally reminded me of the of, like, Taku Sugimoto and Yeah. That whole Ankiyo scene, which was really kind of extreme when you think about it. But this was this had a maybe a less polished approach to it, which was really which added a lot of of texture and of also emotional texture,
Justin:I find. For sure.
Anne F:For sure.
leon:There's a lot less distance than than the the the Onkyo stuff that was happening at the at the turn of the millennium, I guess, where where it was really focused on just appreciating the the appearance of sound and the disappearance of sound and everything around it. But here, it's there's, like, such fragility that's not aesthetic. It's like it's, again, contextual because you're you're literally immersed in in the place that it's happening.
Justin:And existential. Like, it feels like, to me, this is super good blues music. Like, this is,
leon:like,
Justin:heavy blues music. You know? And and I also love that it's, like, there's this kind of, like, you know, what where Ankio kind of then turns into Vondelweisser, which, like, mad respect, I love that stuff, but this is so much more punk and so much more raw and, like, so much more kind of, like, it hits like, it really affects me in a way that that other music doesn't doesn't hit me the same way.
Anne F:Yeah. There's there's none of the kind of preciousness that these things can fall into. Right? Sure. Yeah.
Jacob:Yeah. Yeah.
Anne F:Direct Yeah. Thing.
leon:That's good. I was I was trying to figure out, like, trying to decode the the sounds and and still don't really know what that little clickity kinda there there's like it sounds like a really distant clave is being struck sometimes. And or, like, kind of a raindrop falling, but it's, like, too yeah. It almost sounds like maybe someone's phone notification or something. But it was it was it was great.
Jacob:Yeah. Super exciting sounding label. I'm definitely gonna book myself that. I mean, and also I I just I know nothing from that part of the world in terms of that kind of music. It's amazing that there's something from there.
Jacob:I'm reminded that Moscow has played us something from China as well. That was really amazing. Yeah. Like a tape cassette kind of label and yeah. I'm I'm really excited to listen to more of this stuff.
Jacob:The sensibility that's there is pretty amazing.
Justin:That was more that was on the that was in the episode that the dog ate. So, like, no
leon:one Yeah.
Jacob:That's right.
Justin:With us. Yeah.
Jacob:Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You're right.
leon:You're That was for members only. Members only episode.
Jacob:Members only
Justin:episode. Yeah. No. And I have to thank Moscos because I went super deep on Chinese underground music after that after you played that. And this is a different label than that label, but that label's amazing too.
Justin:And just there's this whole kind of yeah. I'm, like, so excited about what's happening in China right now. It's, like, such an amazing amazing scene. Yeah. Also found out that there's, like, a really banging dance scene there too from my friend Rico that that performed there and, like, sounded like one of their favorite places to tour.
Justin:So, yeah, really, really interesting
Jacob:scene.
leon:Very cool. Yeah. It's a big place. There's there's space for for everything there. Yes.
leon:Yeah. So I I got something queued up that has probably less notes, but they're more closer closer together. So it's an excerpt from a piece by Ellen Fuhlman. It's called The Gardener. Yeah.
leon:So that was Ellen Follman with an excerpt from called the gardener that's taken from a record called music for the man who grew common in wisdom. This came out in 2020, but it's it compiles works that she did from '87 to '89. But that's very different from her other work because Ellen Follman is better known for her long string instrument, which were very, like, really phenomenal recordings and and just sound phenomenons in in a in a more general sense. But this was commissioned by the Judson Dance Theater, where she was given total freedom to to make music for for dance pieces. And she decided that she wanted to explore samplers.
leon:So she just made a whole bunch of, like, sampler pieces. And so this this recording collects some of those. I don't know if it collects all of them, but it collects some of those. And, yeah, so I thought that was that was pretty interesting.
Anne F:Yeah. I don't know. That that completely blew my mind. I Yeah. I love this and I would never thought I mean, like, had no idea that the lymphoma did things like that.
Anne F:Exactly. And it's so strangely catchy.
Jacob:Yeah.
Anne F:You know? Like, it it's almost like but yeah. It's just so so good. And I love the weirdly processed voice. Yeah.
Anne F:It's just spot on. It's spot on.
leon:Yeah. Well, that's the sampler. Right? When when it's pitched down, you hear the the grain, and it's not like tape grain. It's like the the sampler grain.
Jacob:Uh-huh.
leon:You know? But yeah. I I I was really surprised when I when I stumbled across this. The rest of the piece and the the other piece on the flip side is actually it can go in in very different directions from from this, but it's all, like, super interesting. And it's in my mind, it's mostly interesting knowing that she kinda gave herself a gift.
leon:You know? It was like, oh, the you know, I I I love this, like, building instruments and and all this stuff that I'm, like, fully, you know, immersed in, but I wanna try this stuff. Yeah. And the stakes seem so low also. So so it's, like, nice to hear that.
Justin:I also really love the way you can hear the technology. Like, it's it's not unlike the first piece. Like, the the specific sampler that's being used is so identifiable and so specific to that era of Right. Music. And it gives us this patina that's so, like, David Van Tiegum or, like, Laurie Anderson or whatever.
Justin:And you're just in that space. Yeah. And it's so cool sounding, and it's like and it's it's I love the way the tools become such a deep part of the sound of the thing. Like, it's so yeah. It's really awesome.
Jacob:I was gonna say, holy shit. This piece of music just summoned the craziest thunder clap out my window. Like, I think there's like a storm right next door. And I was I was listening to these, like, shamanistic chants that you're you're playing here. And then suddenly, just the sound stops.
Jacob:It just goes like zzzz. And then there's just this huge thundercloud. Amazing. So I was just kind of and now there's a rainbow. Oh my goodness.
Justin:Thanks thanks, Ellen.
Jacob:Yeah. That was a wonderful music, by the way. It was really great. It was really awesome. That could that's yeah.
Jacob:That was great. Another
Justin:one that I wish it went on a lot longer than it did was, like, could you just keep going, please? Like, that one someone needs to do an ugly edit of that. Like, it just kinda go for that would be amazing.
leon:Anne, what you got next?
Anne F:Well, actually, I've got quite a a follow-up from Justin Trach because I'm also quite obsessed with the with the Chinese scene this day. Nice. And but from another label. So let's play it. We'll talk after.
Jacob:That sounds great.
leon:That's it.
Justin:Why, yeah, why did it have to end? I'm like, I was just I was just there. Like, don't stop. Oh my god. I know this artist from another record, but it isn't as like, it was good, but it's not even close to as good as this.
Anne F:Yes. Right? And that isn't that phenomenal? Though it's true that that specific track, I'm completely obsessed with, but she's made like, she actually has released a lot of things.
Justin:Yeah.
Anne F:A a lot of it is so so so so so good. It's also very you can find on the web a couple of videos of of her playing, and the stuff she's playing with makes no sense, and that's coming from me.
Jacob:So I mean
Anne F:yeah. Yeah.
leon:Can you mention who the the artist is and
Anne F:So her name is I mean, I'm I'm absolutely convinced I'm not pronouncing that right, but I think you pronounce it something like Xiao Kong. Like, you'd write it z h a o, Kong, c o n g.
leon:Yeah. And
Anne F:that recording, like, most of our recordings are on the label Zoom at Night Okay. Based in Beijing, which is in a in a way a bit the companion label of of Subjam. Like, they they kinda share a bit the same kind of range, I would say, of of different experimental scenes, but some of them more strangely melodic, some more kinda contraption based. And that album is also called Karaoke and I, which I think is a very beautiful album title.
Jacob:And great cover art. It's great cover art, I should mention.
leon:Yeah.
Justin:I also I also know her from Aloe Records, which is a great tape label too. That's really amazing. So that's yeah. And I that record on that label, five three five five or something like that, is really, really amazing too. It's really great.
Justin:Wow. But that that tracks the best thing I've ever heard by her. It's like it also made me realize that, like, the third vertebrae of the neck is part of the ear. I was listening with this vertebrae in my neck. It was really, really good.
Justin:I was like, wow. That's really awesome. Wow. It's so immersive. Like, I was
Jacob:just Yeah.
Justin:It's super cool.
Jacob:Yeah.
leon:I I was gonna say that the contraption based stuff is so oftentimes so organic. Like, it's really they're really instruments. You know? They're they're it's not like electronic music even if it's electric, oftentimes electric. But it the there's so much personality, you know, in in the in the the way that the contraptions generate sound or whatever.
leon:Again, obviously, there's, like, a motor, so there's something kind of Cyclical. Cyclical and repetitive, but it's still a physical thing. So there's, like, you know, it it's not a perfect a perfect cycle either. And it it like, there's breathing. You you you can really hear the Yeah.
leon:The machine or or well, the contraption rather, living, you know, and it's really delightful that way.
Justin:I'm just in awe of the restraint. Like, it's like to be that, like, that kind of palette and just be, wow. Like, the space and the the like, the I would I don't have anywhere near that emotional discipline as a performer. I'm just like,
Anne F:I wanna go. You know?
Justin:I'm just having it be like, okay. Wow. Wow. Like, so much space. So beautiful.
Jacob:Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna I'm gonna bookmark that label also. It's amazing sounding.
Justin:Yeah. Thanks for bringing such an incredible music. It's so exciting. It's so great.
Anne F:Well, it's kinda fun to you know, when at some point you're like, maybe maybe I should stop listening to that album because the tape will break. Yeah. And so it's it's it's fun to be like, oh, here I have an excuse to listen to it again. I have to. Like, it's I like have to.
Anne F:These people are, you know, these people are expecting me to play it.
Justin:Is it. We were. We were. We did not disappoint.
leon:No. It's good. That's totally the perfect excuse.
Justin:Yeah. Fantastic.
leon:Jacob, you're up next?
Jacob:So you you know what? I'm gonna jam to this. If you can jam to this kind of stuff, I'm gonna jam to it. Just while we're in that kind of mood, we might as well keep going in that kind of mood. So I'm gonna play maybe I'll just tell you guys what it is because just the sound of it is amazing.
Jacob:But it's basically the recording of speakers being boiled by water. Or water boiling speakers and it's the heat of the speakers that's destroying the heat of the boiling water that's destroying the speakers. So that's what we're gonna hear. So let's have a listen to it. So that was Atsushi Tominaga, and the piece is just called 13.
Jacob:And in fact, you know, I've been like, think it's, like, twenty years ago I discovered this label that this is on. It's on a compilation, and the label's called Work, big w, small r, big k from Japan. And it's led by this guy Minoru Sato and Toshiya Tsunoda, who's one of the first guys from Work, and also Tominaga, the one who we just heard, who also incidentally, there's like a thirty minute version of this as well. He put some other speakers in boiling water, and it just sounds unlike anything. It's really really beautiful field recordings and this label I urge anyone to really discover because the kind of field recordings they get is just so out of this world and interesting and unexpected and really beautiful.
Justin:I mean, we don't need instruments anymore. No. Like, just throw some black metal vocals over that. The kids will love it. It's great.
Justin:It's great. It's so that's so fantastic. Yeah. Holy shit. That was amazing.
Jacob:I'm I'm remind I was just gonna add, I'm reminded that when I was young, I was twenty years ago or more than twenty years ago, I was visiting Rotterdam out of all places with my father, because he wanted to show me architecture there. You know? And Rotterdam is a super I'm sorry. Whoever who's ever been to Rotterdam, but it's a super boring city. There's nothing happening Nothing happening there.
Jacob:And I was just so bored. And then I'm walking by this gallery, and I look inside and it's like work that Japanese label, like, installation, you know, exhibition, which is I couldn't believe it. And so, know, so you have all these amazing there's like this amazing Toshio Tsunoda installation. It was just these speakers in a wooden kind of crate and they would vibrate and they would vibrate to all the sounds that are outside. So you would have these like these like any sound that would happen, they would just vibrate.
Jacob:And so you have these beautiful these like almost like physics plus sound plus madness or something. So but this recording is amazing. And then the thirty minute one that he made too that I urge people to somehow track down is amazing as well.
leon:I mean, because you had set it up, I think it's it's really a good thing that you set it up, telling us what we were about to listen to. This felt like watching a Mission Impossible or something. It was like my my heart was pounding. I was like I was antiso and it's, like, really insane because, obviously, there's, like, the the the pulse the steady pulse that's that's very present throughout. And then it just starts speeding up and speeding up.
leon:It's like, I was about to have a a a minor heart attack. It was so exciting.
Anne F:Yeah. It was great. It's rare to have experimental music that makes you just smile the whole time. Like, a big smile.
Jacob:Like, yeah.
Justin:Yeah. Yeah. It
Anne F:made me happy.
Justin:It's a I I understand how you record microphones boiling, but, like, how do you record speakers boiling? I don't understand it. Like, what do they is it, like
Jacob:I think no. Because you can use speakers as microphones. You put them in the input and they become speakers. Yeah.
Justin:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's okay.
Jacob:Yeah. And they hang over the boiling water and just kinda disintegrate. Yeah.
leon:Wow. Yeah.
Jacob:Beautiful. Yeah. What a amazing.
Justin:Yeah. Yeah. The world this is also a thing, like, when I'm whenever I'm making anything these days, like, I get confronted by the worldliness of the world. Like, I'm like, shit. You make something, it's less world than the world already is.
Justin:And then you this is a huge problem. You know? Like, artistically, you're like, fuck. I'm stuck. I'm making something that's less interesting than the world already is by itself.
Justin:You know? Like so Yeah. It's so hard to figure out. It's crazy.
Jacob:But you know also, like, the world has changed. When I discovered this music, I was so into it. It's like those sounds, I couldn't Yeah. Imagine anything. And there was barely any Internet at the time, so I ended up just like writing a letter to the guy who runs the label, you know, to Japan.
Jacob:I sent it to him. And then like a month later, I get this like package in the mail from him with like all the information and like about all this stuff that they do and like, you know, like images and, like, for all that, like, color photocopies of just, like Wow. And it was just such a beautiful way of discovering something than just going on the Internet and finding it, you know. Like, you just send it out somewhere in the world and this guy was all surprised. He's like, oh, someone in interested in iMusic is super excited.
Jacob:You know? And you just so, yeah, I miss that.
Justin:That's amazing. Yeah. It's different, but it's also that was yeah. It's that was the nice thing about the niche thing was meeting all these people who are making work and finding work through people instead of through the Internet. You know?
Justin:Like, just connecting with people or, like Yeah. When you're on tour or whatever, like, and you're with other folks. It's such a nicer way. But I it's funny because the the the thing you were saying, Leon, about the the the pulse, I I had a techno track ready to play. But then I realized that because of that, it got me excited.
Justin:But then I realized also this morning because of our esteemed guest and figuring that we would overlap in a lot of listening between all of us. I went on this mad search to find something new for this episode, and I was like, I gotta find something new that came out, like, this week or something. So to so I found something. So I'm not I was pretty excited about it. I'm not super familiar with it, but it it thematically really works.
Justin:I'll I'll give a little introduction to the the thematic the record's called, Meditate and Destroy, and the idea was this kind of music has these two poles of either being in this, space of, like, absorptive kind of thoughtfulness or, like, raw destruction. And how do you create work that doesn't, like, create a binary out of those things? And this is the kind of conceptual framework behind this record. So pretty interesting. Some really cool people.
Justin:I'll talk about who they are afterwards, but it's let's hear it. So that is Leandro Barzabal and Celeste Gatier. I believe it's live recordings from a recent tour they did of France and Argentina. And this is their first their first album, so very, very cool. It's they're all entitled compositions, so it's compositions about the ambivalency between meditating and destroying.
Justin:And this is also a really great label. It started out originally in 2019 as Tom Val records, which was to release Tom Val's record. And then it became later Les Discs Omniscient, and it's a French label that has really sick, like, really wide ranging interesting taste. So it's I just went and checked them out today and was like, anything new on this cool label? And that was new on this cool label.
Justin:So this is like the new releases section of the show. I like I liked it a lot. It's pretty Yeah.
Jacob:That was great. That was wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. I love the sound of that.
Jacob:Just the the the sound like, quality of it was amazing. Yeah. And those ascending tones, I love this stuff.
Justin:Yeah. I wish I knew more about it, but I, like, I just find the sonic world, it's very like, I resist the word tasteful, but it's, like, kinda tasteful, like, in a funny way. It's it's very yeah. It's elegant in a funny way, but it's it's still quite interesting.
leon:Yeah. I I it I'm it makes me think of laptop music. Like, I I feel like possibly that's what's that's what's happening. But, yeah, it's, like, such a interesting way of just, like, hacking stuff to to see what kind of things emerge, and it's, like, it's really it's really nice.
Anne F:It does that that kind of slave aspect to it, though, that I really like. Also, I mean, it makes sense that it's two people. Like, it doesn't feel over controlled or overwritten. You know? Like, you have this kind of spontaneous things emerging, which is sometimes my problem with laptop music.
Anne F:You know? It can be a bit it's kinda predetermined. But I like that kinda yeah. Okay.
Justin:It's got the real live, like I
Jacob:mean, it almost sounds like you go wrong. It almost sounds like they're trying to control some sort of feedback at at times. And I Yeah. And I love that it I love that in experimental music when you're just trying to, like, tame feedback. And feedback is never listening, you know.
Jacob:It's just it's always just this kind of crunchy thing that just wants to always come out and you're trying to bring it back, and this has that quality, which I really love.
Justin:I also love that I'm not familiar enough with this record to to realize that at the beginning, I thought my computer was fritzing again, and I was like, jeez. Like, something's gone wrong.
leon:I gotta go fix that.
Justin:But, no, it was the record. It was great. It's nice.
leon:Well, I got something that ties in, like, super well with everything. I it was just a a matter of time before would be played on this podcast. Oh, yeah. There's also, like, some pretty spectacular thunderstorm happening over here.
Justin:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
leon:Yeah. But the whole thing about meditation versus this destruction, The other thing about what you said, Jacob, taming feedback. Mhmm. I just finished reading a book of interviews with Elena Hedig, and that's basically her thing was Mhmm. At at the beginning was taming feedback.
leon:And she has this beautiful word for for that, which is the wild sounds, for feedback.
Jacob:That's great. That's great.
leon:It's such a it's such a beautiful beautiful term. But also about meditation because so many people have projected this kind of meditative aspect onto her music and the fact that she's a practicing Buddhist and everything. People just kind of assume that it's meant for meditation, her music. And she's like, no. No.
leon:No. This is, like, listening. This is for listening. You know? You have to be an active listener.
leon:It's not I mean, if you wanna do yoga at the same time, whatever. That's your deal. You know? But I I make it so that people can can listen to it. So I'm yep.
leon:The piece we're gonna play is called ocam hepta one. So that was OCAM HEPTA one, a piece by Ilhan Khadig composed with the. And this is a recording that came out in 2023, but the the piece was actually recorded in in 2021. I think it came out on Sorry for taking up so much real estate on the episode, but I think it was No. No.
Jacob:You know, when I was listening to this while I was listening to it, was thinking to myself, every week everyone should listen to this piece of music, you know, and then you're fine. You're just ready. You're just you're just ready. You're ready. It's okay.
Jacob:It was wonderful.
leon:I just wanna say a little bit about the piece and the the OCAM Elen Radzig's OCAM piece is a is like a series she started in the I think in the in the February where she sat down with or she was approached by instrumentalists, like musicians. And she would sit down with them and listen to them play their instruments and just figure out, like, pinpoint thresholds, like, the limits of the instruments kind of and and the the the the color that the the the musician is actually bringing to the instrument. And she would, with them, compose a piece that that would be called an, a reference to razor. And also also a reference to a sci fi novel that she actually cites. I think it's, the title of the sci fi novel.
leon:But yeah. So so these pieces are actually only meant for that performer. They can't be played by anyone else. And up to now, she has about, like, 50 of these compositions these co compositions. And then she'll sometimes she'll make compositions for larger ensembles, but oftentimes, she'll actually combine the existing compositions.
leon:So, like, bring musicians together, and they all simultaneously play their their pieces. And it the the sum, obviously, becomes this new this new composition. But I find that that way of working so inspirational. And also, like, reading about the the process, the level of of letting go of of the ego and of control is is so it's really beautiful to see.
Jacob:Yeah. It's amazing.
leon:She's like, yeah. The the musicians get together. We we make this music. It's really beautiful. They, you know, they figure it out, and I comment sometimes, but I don't do much.
leon:It's just, like, so great. Yeah. And and so I was really I was really, really happy to listen to her music through instruments as opposed to the the the synth the art Yeah. Yeah. Electronic music that we're more familiar with.
leon:She has
Justin:recently gone back to making electronic music and
leon:Oh, wow.
Justin:And is using AI. And it is it's fucking amazing. It's really incredible. I'll play it on the next episode. But it's one that's been hanging around, and she's doing something really, really as remarkable and beautiful in that context.
Justin:Wow. She's using machine learning, and it's, like, super, super powerful and fearless. And
Jacob:It sounds amazing, actually.
Justin:It's really, really incredible. It's really I was it's I've it's in my list to play on the show for several episodes, and I just never had the right moment for it. But it's that's really, really, really incredible. She's the greatest. Like and also to the thing I was saying before about let the world be the world.
leon:Like, I mean Exactly.
Justin:How do you it's so good. Like, I'm just like, oh, thank god. So good. But then we don't have to do anything. She did it all already.
Justin:Thankfully, she does not use house with objects and stuff, so you got
leon:room still. It's good.
Justin:We're all screwed, but you got you got terrain of mine. It's great. Awesome.
Jacob:Yeah. It was a beautiful way of ending the show, Leon. That's well, it's evening here, so I'm I'm gonna sleep so well.
Justin:Yeah. It's beautiful watching the sun go down while you were and sorry. I for any distraction I caused, I had a flood while that was going
leon:on that I had to go clean up.
Justin:So, like, I forgot that I had a bunch of windows open, and I
leon:was like, oh, fuck. Have
Justin:to go run and get a bunch of towels. But yeah. Thank you so much for joining us. Like, this was, like, leveled up the sonic reality of this show.
Jacob:Yeah. Yeah.
leon:Absolutely. Anne, I don't know if you want to talk about any projects that you're working on or or things that you wanna share with the
Anne F:listeners? Absolutely not. Mean, because, you know, that seems quite unnecessary. I I'm just I'm just kinda still, you know, listening to that piece to my head. Mhmm.
Anne F:Oh, yeah. No. Let's not talk about projects. No. That that was beautiful.
Anne F:Yeah. Thank you. I mean, it's it's funny too because that piece you just played, Leon, is is that ensemble that I was with Kyoko Akama, which is one of my closest collaborators. I actually yeah. I actually have listened to that piece, but not like, I never just sat down and done nothing else than listen to it.
Anne F:So I don't know. I'm kinda and I actually have considered bringing some of Hiyoko's recording to to this thing, but I haven't. So, anyway yeah. So it just kinda ties the loop in so many Yeah.
Jacob:It's amazing.
Anne F:So many beautiful ways. Yeah.
leon:Mhmm. Well, thank you so much for for, yeah, for joining us, and thanks everyone for
Jacob:Yeah. It was a lot of fun. Yeah. Super cool. Yeah.
Jacob:All that Chinese stuff. I'm really, really stoked. Yeah. All that Chinese
Anne F:stuff. Yeah.
leon:Yeah. Very cool. Alright. Well, I guess it's time for the for the end credits. Take care.