Episode 13: By What Signs Will I Come to Understand
It's a joy to be alive. It's good to be glad. Good to survive. It's great to be mad.
Jacob:Lucky number 13.
justin:Lucky, lucky number 13. We are here. We made it.
leon:We made it up to thirteen. We might not make it past thirteen. What will happen?
justin:We don't know. Tune in more to find out.
leon:Yeah.
justin:It's great.
leon:So we're recording. Yeah. It's fall. Yeah. And it's another early early recording session again.
justin:Yeah. So it might be a bit dopey this morning.
Jacob:Except except for me.
justin:So we count on you to bring the action, Jacob. You bring the action.
Jacob:How's it going?
leon:It's it's going fast.
justin:Yeah. Yeah. It's going really way too fast.
leon:It's going really fast.
justin:I was listening to this podcast yesterday about relativity and time in in in Indra's web. And if you're accelerating or you're moving at the same speed, I'm gonna get this all wrong, but, like, there's this thing with rulers.
leon:Thanks for the visual
justin:aid, Justin. You're welcome. Where your where your ruler gets shorter or longer depending on this relative speed you're traveling at compared to the other person's. And it was it was it made me feel like that's what's happening in my life right now. Oh, wow.
justin:Yeah. The speed is there's a lot of speed. So I have a great idea for that so that I'm gonna slow things down today.
leon:Oh. The plan. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
justin:Yeah. I I don't need to start. I just feel like this is this is Leon, you know, I think you should start because you've never have you even started an episode ever?
leon:I I think I I have. But
Jacob:I think in a while.
leon:Have, but maybe not in a while. Mhmm. And that's kind of a good setup, Justin. But, actually, I I probably have a really good track to start off in that in that vein of what is speed and what is slow. Amazing.
Jacob:What is Gabbard? Which which are
justin:you going are you going for speed or slow?
leon:I might be going for both.
justin:Okay. Great.
leon:Great. This might be the the eight ball.
justin:I'm excited. If I turn it upside down, will they tell me my fortune? Yeah.
leon:So here's here's our question. When was the last time any of you thought about Disco Inferno?
justin:The band. Very recently. Oh, wow. I love them. Yeah.
justin:Yeah. Actually, I was listening to them, like, maybe two weeks ago with with someone. Yeah.
leon:Because they they they come up in my mind a lot.
justin:Yeah. They're so great.
leon:I was wondering, so what's up? And I often, like, have a lot of questions that I would like to ask myself, and I don't necessarily follow through. I just, like, kinda like being in wonder and but I'm too lazy to find out. But then I I looked up what was going on with Disco Inferno, and Ian Krause, the singer, is still making music. Wow.
leon:He actually he actually put out a record in 2024. But, actually, he put out a a lot of music since Disco Inferno broke up, but all independently, like, out on Bandcamp. And he, yeah, he put out something last summer, but which is very, very closely related to an EP he put out in 2014. And I'm actually gonna play an excerpt from that EP, the the 2014 EP. Hold on.
leon:I'm gonna share this. So this is Ian It's a nice cover. Ian Krause. Krause. The track is called Faithin's Call, and it's it's taken from a three part three song EP called The Song of Faithin.
leon:And all the tracks kinda blend into each other. So this one this is the first track, and it might kinda end abruptly. But, yeah, this is totally both speeds.
justin:All speeds at once.
leon:That's yours. Speeds at once. So here's Ian Krausz with Faith in this Call. Oh, actually, just a little warning. I know that a lot of our listeners listen to the podcast while driving.
leon:You may wanna pull over for a couple
justin:of minutes.
leon:Okay. So here it goes.
justin:There you go. What? Jesus. Love that
leon:for the first track.
Jacob:Wow. That was incredible.
justin:You know, there's a there's a problem in the world because that should be like, if the the this is really where we went into the wrong timeline because, like, that should be what all the kids are listening to. You know, like, that should be the Radiohead Stadium two and that like, he just kept getting better. That's crazy.
leon:Yeah. Yeah. I have a a lot to say about it because I I when I I heard this, I had to find out more. Yeah. Well, first off, a little context.
leon:Faith in is a like, it's a he's an old Greek mythological figure. He's like the love child of Helios and the sea nymph, and he's kind of a snotty kid who, one one day asked his father if he could ride the chariots one day.
Jacob:Oh, I know. This is a great story. Yeah. It's an amazing story.
leon:So, like, Helios is like, well, I don't know because it's, like, you know, it's pretty dangerous. There's no obstacles. The horses are really, like, hard to control and everything.
justin:And the kid's like, no.
leon:No. I gotta do it. I gotta do it. I I will be fine. You know?
leon:I'll be super good at it. Just trust me. And so Helios lets his kid, Faith, and do it, ride the drive the the carriage across the the sky one day,
justin:and the kid completely loses control.
leon:He's, like, riding all over the place. He's riding too close to the earth. He's, like, burning half of the earth. He's riding too far. He's freezing the other half.
leon:And he's, like, causing so much havoc that everyone is just pissed off and, like, telling Helios, like, you gotta do something about your kid. This kid is out of control. And Helios has no choice but to strike him down with a bolt of a lightning bolt. It's insane. So he kills his his son, and the earth is half scorched and half frozen.
leon:Wow.
Jacob:Yeah. It's a great story. It's an amazing story.
leon:So this was written in 2014. Ian Krause was writing about the Iraq war. Wow. And it's it's really, really insane. He took a a long break after Disco Inferno, and he was kind of disillusioned.
leon:He seems to be kind of that kind of person of
justin:Yeah. He did even back in the day.
leon:Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And and I I wasn't fully aware of this, but when they started, he was, like, 16 years old Yeah. In in DI.
leon:So so there was a lot of, like, you know, confidence issues and and all that. And after DI broke up, he was a 100% persuaded that he was no good at music and but he had things to say. And so the one thing he thought that he could have a little bit of mastery over was just knowledge. And so he just went back to medieval texts and, like, ancient, you know, accidental texts and just studied for years until he felt like he could confidently say something. And, yeah, it's it's it's really, really amazing.
leon:So he was he was the the singer and the the guitarist in in DI, so he was triggering all the the samples with his MIDI guitar. Yeah. I'm not exactly sure that he's still using that setup, but I don't know, Justin, if your ears pricked up, but there's, like, a whole bunch
justin:Oh, yeah.
leon:Of sounds that are that he's still using, basically.
justin:Yeah. It sounded like a DI tracking. Yeah. Yeah. I was like Exactly.
justin:Throw a couple tablets in there and you got like Yeah. Was like, wow. So wild. Yeah.
leon:But so he's doing this thing that he's calling film sound, which is basically, like, he wants to convey the universe. Wow. And not necessarily, like, a song. And but because he still feels like he's technically not proficient musically proficient, he just has this idea of just passing through all the elements that he wants to show, like, a sequence of small photographs in front of you, like, at arm's length. He he literally describes it as, like, holding images at arm's length and then just, like, just going past you while he's while he's singing over them.
leon:And so that's all the the sound samples and all that just conveying that that universe. And I saw a review of some of his work, and the journalist was calling him the sample punk turned Foley Bard, which I think is, like, the most apt thing.
justin:Because it it it does have that
leon:kind of, like, you know, coil, you know, feeling, like, super mystic, ancient yet, like, timeless quality to it. And I I I don't know. It's I find it really, really amazing.
justin:It it was incredible. Like, do you know it made me think of a couple things really directly to that actually our last guest host turned me on to through his through through Blastitude. He got me into this or he was, like, hyping this band really intensely called the God in Hackney, who I really, really fell in love with. And then but from them, got into Brian Kaitling, who was their art school teacher who was one of the YBA kind of the he just hated the whole young British artist thing and kind of disappeared out of it. And also did very deep his novels are fucking terrifying.
justin:Like, he writes these incredible like, the the the one I was reading is this medievalist I'll I'll try and find the name of it and put it in the show notes, but it was like, they were carrying this mutant decaying corpse thing, like medieval England to this monastery where heaven and hell were having a battle in the backyard of the the monastery. Wow. Totally incredible. And the the text of this reminded me so much of Brian Kittling and, like, felt like they really I hope I'm getting his name right. But the the yeah.
justin:It was it I'll I'll put all the details for that in the show notes, but, like, incredible book and very this this is really interesting to me too because it's this kind of similar approach to, like, medieval and mythology and deep, like, kind of Foley artistry in some ways too. That's really and bard thing. You know? Like, it's like this really yeah. Who where is this living in the world?
justin:Like, where do you read about this? Like, where because I'm so excited that this is out there. Like, how is it getting any attention, or are people seeing this?
leon:Well, the I mean, to be fair, this is a this is an album that came out in 2014.
justin:So Sure.
leon:And a lot of the articles that I was that that that were talking about this were based in The UK. So I think, you know, DI still has, like, a cult following in some regions of the world, and they they kinda just listen
justin:Amazing. Stay
leon:abreast. But so ten years later, he puts out this another two song EP called the end of time in last summer, and it's like a direct I mean, it's a it's a different theme, but it's it's it basically picks up. It's basically the same track. He sings the same, everything. And it's really strange because six months prior to this, he had released a solo his first solo full length called the vertical axis, which is very much more indie rock song structured.
leon:And there's like I mean, it's it's a very good record. There's some songs that actually sound dated, which is surprising, dated in the sense of 2014. Yeah. So it's like, in my sense, it's a much weaker record. And then six months later, he puts up this thing, which seems to be like the new path that he's on with with the film sound stuff.
leon:Wow. And it's completely, you know, mind splitting. Yeah.
Jacob:You know what you know what this reminded me of, which really made me just smile and and love it, is that it reminded me when I first tried to do experimental music. It would sound just I would be so overwhelmed by just being excited for making music
justin:Yeah. That I
Jacob:would just try everything, you know,
leon:or Exactly.
Jacob:Or when you would get a piece of gear, like, you'd get a chaos pad. You're so excited.
justin:You start just putting it, like, everything. And you're just
Jacob:and sometimes it's just you're you know, then you get refined, and then you become an experimental musician and so on and so forth. But this but the first time I think you try something like that is it this just reminds me of being just so excited about making this stuff, you know, and not having any any limitations and not thinking. You're just completely full on. And this reminds me of that. Just anytime you get a new equipment, get a phaser pedal, you're just like
leon:just getting Yeah. Phasing everything.
justin:Just phasing everything. And it's totally reminds me of that. You know? Yeah. It's really wonderful.
justin:Yeah. Yeah.
Jacob:That was that was amazing, actually.
leon:Yes. I I was really, really excited to to stumble across this.
justin:Yeah. This is fantastic.
Jacob:So who's next after
justin:that? I I got something actually, have something pretty great to play after that that I think will take a certain texture of it into a very, very nice way, and it is it is a CD Esoteric exclusive Oh. Recorded in twenty twenty five summer, as yet unreleased. Incredible. As far as I know, might have changed, but last time I spoke to this person, it was unreleased.
justin:And it is also kind of incredible because it was inspired by the episode that this person did with us, or by the like, kind of evolved out of that episode. So pretty mind blowing. I wanted to play this last episode, but it didn't really work out with what was happening in that episode. But it feels I'm just itching to play it because it's so lovely.
Jacob:So Alright. That means okay.
justin:Moment here. And I've just gotta find it. Could it be? You Who could it be now? It's Men at Work.
justin:It's good.
leon:It's CD esoteric exclusive.
justin:Yeah. This is it.
Jacob:I'm thinking back 200 episodes. Who could Yeah. So many musicians.
justin:We have musicians.
leon:Wait a minute.
justin:Where is it? There it is. Okay. Great. And I'm gonna play which is the right one to play.
justin:It's so good. I wanna play the whole thing, but it's, an hour. So we'll we'll forty six minutes, but I'll play I'll play one track to keep it in the in the go. So here we go, guys. Got it.
justin:Very special.
leon:Man, that was a banger.
Jacob:That was cool to hear.
justin:So that is o o o o from the album o o by Christophe Magon, who is obviously a freaking genius, and I can't believe that he sent this to us to play. Thanks so much. What a the whole album is incredible. And I'll just read you what he sent me about it. O o is an offshoot of a book of writings in French that will come out in early twenty twenty six by Marie Duce, Saint Jacques, press, lap, c cover below, which I'll put in the notes or something.
justin:Packs two and five are the ones most explicitly based on the hummingbird throughout the t keyboard sizzmo, Tracticus, which was the track he played that blew all our minds.
Jacob:Oh, yeah. Totally recognized it. Yeah.
justin:Me too. The track that redeemed him in your eyes, because I was complaining about the rest of his music. The origin of o o was was a 2017 installation, Stereophony. The audio component was entirely unplanned and came about largely due to the esoteric podcast. It focuses obsessively on the vowel doubling and implicitly presents them as a set of stereo speakers, one o to the left, the other o to the right.
justin:And it's it's a really, really exciting record. I love it. The yeah. Really honored that he's, like, put a little sneak preview of that out into the world. Pretty pretty cool.
justin:Yeah. And it played so nicely after that last, you know, like
leon:Yeah. Absolutely.
justin:Absolutely. And it also makes me think about, like, the the arcs of people's careers and lives and stuff like that. Because Christophe, you know, like, he's he's really figured something out, he just keeps making this incredible stuff. His work deepens. Like, both these two artists have had a remarkable consistency through their practices.
justin:You know? And, like and Christophe's really it's like it's it was really great. I went to saw him the other night a couple weeks ago or maybe a month ago at a performance that he did in Montreal. And one of the things that had really evolved as of him as a performer was he was fucking hilarious. Yeah.
justin:That's like he's got developed this incredible delivery, like, his comic timing. And, also, this was really funny too because, Mary Duce, who's mentioned in that, is has a little cameo in Marie Broussard's new film, The Train, which I can't recommend highly enough. We saw it last night. It was mind blowing. Her first film, incredible first film, and Mary Deuce is pretty awesome in it.
justin:But, a little cameo was pretty cool to see her there. But I also saw Jimmy Jimmy, which was Marie's original theater piece that made her really famous, and that she also, as a performer over time, her like, that I saw that piece twenty years ago and saw it again now, and it was hilarious now. And it was something
leon:Mhmm.
justin:There's something maybe about the grind and cruelty of life that turns you into a comedian. Or something, but they're both Yeah. Both pretty incredible. So bravo, Christophe. That's it.
justin:Like, I hope you're listening in your car and you're somewhere near, like, I don't know, like a Right. At this one of those pullover stations where you can get a cup of coffee from a gas station and we can say cheers to you or something. That was beautiful. Thank you so much. Incredible.
leon:Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. That was that was that was so good. That was really, really enjoyable.
leon:Mhmm. Something about the just the repetitiveness makes you start it's hearing ghosts everywhere. Yeah. It's like really, really and also the the the pulse is, like, really very enjoyable. I I like that a lot.
leon:It was yeah. It like I said, it's a banger.
justin:I Yeah. Yeah.
Jacob:I mean, you know, to me, it makes me think, like, something like minimalism has become a. But this this feels like listening to minimalism again. Yeah. Yeah. I love this idea that I'm just re you know, revisit not even revisiting, but just seeing minimalism anew with something completely Yeah.
Jacob:That doesn't sound like it and just discovering it anew. And this felt like it. It really just played on it like a different plane for than most of the stuff that's meant to do what this does. And this feels like just an alien. It was it's really, really wonderful.
justin:Yeah. Yeah.
Jacob:That was cool. That was that was unexpected. It was good to hear that piece Yeah. That piece in there, the little I was also thinking, man, you know, it's like techno people sample each other. Was experimental musicians should do, like, remixes.
justin:You know? Absolutely. Like,
Jacob:nobody nobody does that stuff. Everyone's just, like, remix this, remix this. This this is such a great remix almost,
leon:I would say.
Jacob:Very cool.
justin:Jacob, you're up. I've got
Jacob:something totally after this. That's amazing. Okay. Let me just Wait.
leon:This is exciting.
justin:Yeah. When
leon:when Jacob is confident, it's
justin:Yeah. It's like We know we're gonna get Okay. Teeth. Did you
leon:guys know this?
Jacob:Do you know this? Okay.
leon:We know this.
Jacob:Oh. So so let me just this is called the last LP by Michael Snow, and it's the last LP, unique last recordings of the music of ancient cultures. That's what it is. So let's let's listen to a piece here. Ready?
Jacob:So that was called Cinoboda by Michael Snow, or it's rather recording of field recordings of Michael Snow. Hold on a second. And then, you know, I kinda started reading a little bit about this. So let me just read you a bit about this little recording because it's really kind of weird. So in 1987, Snow issued the last LP, which purported to be a documentary disc of the dying gasps of ethnic musical cultures from around the globe, including Tibet, Syria, India, China, Brazil, Finland, and elsewhere, with more thousands of words of pseudo scalarly supplemental notes, but was in fact a series of multitracked recordings of Snow himself, who gave the joke away only in a single column of the text in the disc skateful jacket printed backwards and readable in a mirror.
Jacob:One track oh, wait. One track, and this is the one what we listened to, perpetrated to be a document of coming of age ritual from Nigeria is a pastiche of Whitney Houston's song.
justin:How old would I know? Yeah. Yeah. I was singing a
leon:lot What a
Jacob:a mind fuck this thing is. When I what I mean, when I when as soon as I was reading the notes, my my heart sunk. Because I was thinking, this tribe is incredible.
justin:You guys have, like, total R and D. I in their blood.
leon:That's amazing.
Jacob:So, yeah, it was really kind of a weird one. It's a mind it's a mind fucker, that one. But but only only through Michael Snow can you perhaps have that kind of experience of just, how do we, you know, encounter things and how do we Yeah. Analyze things and receive things. Well,
leon:this is like a total Sun City girls thing also.
justin:Yeah. And can too. The ethnic forger series stuff that they did, like, kind of Yeah. And that is very, yeah, challenging in the current climate.
Jacob:But What a but what a great track.
justin:Oh, yeah. No. It's insane. Great track. It's insane.
leon:Yeah. Well, I I mean, this is obviously it's already a critical take on on, like, the whole
justin:Of course.
leon:And stuff. Yeah. Yeah. But it's amazing to to hear that it's just him.
justin:Like, he
leon:he's the one doing all the Especially that beginning
justin:part where it's all, like, the. Yeah. It's, like, incredible. I also gotta say that, like, what really pushed it over the edge for me is looking at the graphic Yeah. Which might have to be the the graphic for the episode.
justin:That's the last the last LP CD on a digital file on iTunes. Like, it's just like, there's so many layers of, like, a hall of mirrors. I love it. It's Yeah. What a smart what a wonderful guy.
Jacob:He
justin:well, he passed away this year. Right?
Jacob:I think out of COVID or, like, not so long ago he passed from COVID. But
justin:A Mark Loeser shout out. Well, I don't know if I can say it. There's something I wanna say about Mark, but he's he's working on a print of a very special film right now. That's all I'm gonna say that he got commissioned to do that. Oh, wow.
justin:And what I I'd I've I don't know if we're allowed to talk about it, but it it's Yeah. You can fill in the dots. It's pretty special.
Jacob:Pretty I was just gonna say this kind of piece, I don't know the last time, and maybe you guys would know the last time this happened to you, that you think you're watching something or you think you're listening to something, and then something is revealed. And what you thought was something is really not what it is. And it's just the strangest feeling you have because you have to always kind of you have to always, like, go back in time and figure where was I when I was at the point Yeah.
leon:Yeah.
Jacob:Yeah. Experiencing this. It's so bizarre. Right.
justin:I mean, the challenge I have in my life, Jacob, is that that's how I feel every moment. Really, honestly. That's great. Yeah. I don't know what that means, but
Jacob:Yeah. So, you know, the first thing I googled, was like Whitney Houston after this. I was like,
justin:oh, yeah. And and
leon:what a what a great track also.
justin:Well, and this subtitle of that is so funny because it totally references Yeah. Like, got it because of the subtitle. What's the subtitle of it again?
Jacob:By what signs will I come to?
justin:That's so perfect.
leon:Man, what a what a prankster.
justin:What a guy. So good.
leon:That was that was pretty delightful.
justin:Yeah. You too, Jason. I I also have a crazy follow-up to this piece of story. I know one of the kids of the CCMC members and which was the Michael Snow Oh, yeah. Yeah.
justin:Of course. You know? And and, like, it was it was so funny talking to him because I met him through work, and he was just, like, totally uninterested. And what is that was like, dude, your dad, like, this is incredible. This and he's like, yeah.
justin:I just grew up with my dad and he had all these annoying noises and weird shit. Like, I just, like, no interest in it at all. It was really funny. I was, like, really kind of confused and disgusted that I was excited about.
leon:Oh. I was
justin:like, I wanna meet your dad. That's so cool.
Jacob:He was so confused. That's amazing. Wow.
justin:Yeah. That was hilarious. I was I was really excited. So, Leon, how are gonna follow that one up?
leon:Well, actually, pretty I'm going to try and follow it up with something that actually continues the CanCon. Wow. Yeah. So this is by another Canadian artist called Chris Wind. I'm gonna talk a little bit about this artist afterwards because it's quite a story.
leon:We're on Chris Wind's webpage right now, and it's amazing.
justin:It is.
leon:And the piece we're gonna be listening to is paintings seven. Yeah. So that was Chris Wind with a song called Paintings seven featuring Rodriguez on clarinet. It's taken from a 1991 album called Paintings. Chris Wind is a musician, composer, and author, Canadian, who put out a series of self released cassettes in the late eighties, early nineties.
leon:But it's also the pseudonym of Peg Tiddle, who is also a musician, composer, and author. So Peg Tiddle basically makes music and writes under both names, Chris Wind and Peg Tiddle. And for the longest time, she would feature on Chris Wind feature, quote unquote, on Chris Wind records as, like, the vocalist. Wow. But everyone thought Chris Wind was a man, and I guess she never performed really because no one really knew, you know, who Chris Wind was.
leon:And Chris Wind the the writing that she does under the name Chris Wind is, like, poetry and fiction. And under her own name, she does fiction as well, but more like philosophical texts and ethical texts. It's really strange. Yeah. So she's like a really, really interesting person, and I think she's she's still alive.
leon:Yes. She is still alive. Sorry. Because she's still posting on her blog. Wow.
leon:But she she put out, like, so many cassettes that are really, really hard to find and very, very expensive. And so on her website, she has the entirety of her artistic output for free that you can download for free.
justin:Both the Chris Winn and, like okay. Amazing. Amazing.
leon:And even the the her writing and everything. It's all on there. And this one, so the the paintings album was like she did the backing tracks, the electronic backing tracks, she asked instrumentalists to come in and solo over them. And you can download just the backing tracks as well. And if ever you you solo or you do something, she's like, please write and let me know.
leon:You know? So Wow. And this is like I I I checked on on Discogs, and her her tapes are, like, trading for, like, $200. And so I think it's such a boss move to just put everything up Yeah. Completely free.
leon:Yeah. And, like, her her music goes all over the place. There's, like, solo Debussy kind of piano stuff. There's sound collage y stuff that kinda sounds like Negativeland meets CBC. Wow.
leon:That's all that stuff.
justin:CBC radio show. I mean, that's way.
leon:Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And and, like, some that that she she put out a whole series of of music to to jog by, and it's it's it's it's phenomenal. It's really, really amazing stuff.
Jacob:What a woman.
justin:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fascinating. Also, the graphic design of the covers, like, it's it's awesome.
justin:It ranges from, like, Kevin Drum to Albert Ashley to Noy. Like, I'm just, like, such good good graphic design. I was really digging that.
Jacob:Yeah. That was beautiful piece of music, though. That was really, really, really beautiful piece of music.
leon:I mean, it was difficult it was difficult to choose a a track because it you know, her output is so all over the place. But this this track was was
Jacob:really beautiful.
justin:Yeah. It's it's it's I'm gonna say because I have I have a hard choice to make now between the I brought a track of trying to do a Leon, like, vibe shift, and I got this Leon vibe shift. And, like, I I was so proud to find a Leon vibe shift, but but I got a really beautiful track too. So I'm gonna play that one first, and I'll save the vibe shift for my last one. It's great.
justin:So I've got something here that I really think will be really nice after that.
Theme song:Twister, loser, will you guess again?
Jacob:Very rad.
leon:Very, very, very rad.
justin:This is, like, my favorite record that I've listened to this year. The whole album is crazy. I can't stop listening to it. The songs get stuck in my head. I, I'm so moved by them.
justin:The words are, like, crazy beautiful. The
Jacob:The voice too. The voice isn't
justin:Yeah. The like and just this it also, like, blows up so many binaries I have in my head. Like, you can't be that delicate and that sensitive and shred. Like, I mean, the shredding is so crazy. Like, the guitar playing's, like like, so virtuosic, and, like, I normally hate that and but just, like, epically perfect.
justin:Like, I'm just like, who
leon:are you? Yeah. You gotta say, who is this?
justin:What is this? This is Chuck Roth, a guitarist from Brooklyn. He's written songs under the name water ghost since 2015. This is the collection of the water ghost songs. The name of the record is Water Ghost songs, and it's on Pailala record.
justin:I'm sure I'm pronouncing that wrong. It's like Bill Orcutt's record label. It's how I found it. Wow. Wow.
justin:And so, yeah, there there's quite that record label is so beautifully curated, but, like, every release on it is insanely great, but this is the best of the best. Like, it's and, like, someone doing something new with guitar. Like
leon:Yeah. Like, you already mentioned, it's, like, total shredding, but, like, so fragile at the same time. Yeah. It it was really, really mesmerizing, like, super hypnotizing, and very involving because of the the vulnerability. It's so beautiful.
justin:It was really so catchy. Like, I mean, it's crazy. Like, it gets stuck in your head, and I'm like, happy melodies is a very advanced understanding of melody. You know? Like, I'm just like quote John Gilmore, but, like, it's it's it's so advanced.
justin:Like, I'm just like, how do you construct a melody like that? Like, just yeah. And, like, I mean, again, once again, I understand why this isn't number one on, like, pop America's top 100. Like, this is the best song I've heard in my life.
leon:This is definitely a contender. I mean, it has everything going for It's it's that was beautiful.
justin:Yeah. So brought some yeah.
Jacob:Yeah. It was amazing.
leon:So Chuck Roth has recorded under the name Water Ghosts?
justin:Yeah. And then also, mean, it's it's recorded under Chuck Roth, but if I understand correctly, he he he's been writing these songs that are these Water Ghost songs with this collection.
leon:But
justin:And then there's also other Chuck Roth record.
leon:That's what I was gonna ask.
justin:Yeah. Yeah. There's I think there's one or two others that are also I listened to one other one that was quite awesome. I think there might be another one, but I just discovered this, like, a couple weeks ago and have been just obsessed. Like, I cannot stop listening to this record.
leon:But is there, like, a kind of a different persona under, you know, water ghost versus
justin:I think the the other is more like, the the other Chuck Ross stuff is more less song based, but, like, a more Yeah. More, you know, guitar playing based. But, I mean, it's yeah. These songs, they're and, like, there is not a song in this record. It's so hard to pick one.
justin:I literally just put the first song because they're all incredible, and I'm like, I can't pick any of them.
leon:Oh, that that kicks off the record.
justin:That's like
leon:a a strong start. Yeah.
justin:Yeah. But I mean, they're all like, there's not there's like like, every single song on it is just shockingly beautiful. Like, you're just like,
Jacob:oh, totally gonna listen to it. That was
justin:a good I I love so much that, like, working on these songs for ten years. You know? And and I think they're all if I understand correctly too, I might be wrong about this, but I so it might be confusing with another record, but I believe they're all single take. Yeah. Just live guitar and voice.
justin:Yeah. Really
Jacob:That was amazing.
justin:I do not know how to make music after this. I was like, no. Yeah. That's incredible. That's fantastic.
Jacob:God. I don't know. I have, like, a choice between two things. Go high, go low. Which I know I wanna do.
Jacob:But I think I'm gonna
justin:I think I'm gonna
leon:go Michelle Obama.
justin:When they go low, they go high.
Jacob:But I think I'm gonna go, baby hi. I happened upon this actually today just by accident. It's a kind of like, it's music. I've known about this woman and her music and her songs and it, but I haven't listened to this stuff in a while. And I was like, oh, it just kind of appeared in front of my computer or in my computer, and I had to listen to it.
Jacob:And it's just such a great, great song. So it's kind of, you know, off the cuff. I'll just play this because it's and maybe it'll go quite nice after this. So let me just share, share, share, share. So that was Haku Yamazaki, and what a voice.
Jacob:Such a what a voice. I think she was like a really big singer in the seventies. And I read also somewhere where apparently the the publishing house that was publishing all her records had gone bankrupt. And so she had to survive as as a dishwasher to make to survive eventually. Wow.
Jacob:But just that track just really floors me and just gives me goosebumps and
leon:Yeah.
Jacob:And and I love I love I love female vocals that have this kind of almost, I don't know, like hollow sound to their voice a little bit. And she's like 17 when she's here. She's so young, and yet she's so hollow sounding. It's amazing.
leon:Yeah. It's it's actually quite a a change from a lot of female Japanese singing styles, I find. Mhmm. I mean, it's it's funny that you mentioned hollow. I think I understand what you mean by hollow, but it's like there's like a lot more resonance.
leon:It's like a so in my mind, it's like a lot fuller. Whereas most often, it will be more of a kind of a voice coming from the head, whereas this is like really coming
Jacob:from the
leon:entire body. You know? Yeah. Yeah. It's really, really beautiful.
leon:What a what a beautiful track.
Jacob:It is. It is. Yeah. It's called wandering. I forgot to mention, but that's what it's called.
Jacob:Hako Yamazaki sign. So that just came up today.
justin:Do you guys listen it it kind of reminds me vocally, and then I bet they're fans of this, but, like, Jim O'Rourke's wife, I think, Echo Ishibashi. Like, she her car there's the one record car, and I can't remember the name of it, but it really like, there's definitely, like, a through line from this to that Yeah. Music. Mhmm. And the vocal even her vocal style too, like, is very yeah, it's like really yeah.
justin:Beautiful.
leon:Yeah. I love
Jacob:the records too. It reminds me of Whitney Houston, you know.
justin:Did a story How will I read the signals that allow me to understand the
Jacob:It's It's totally we went to Houston.
justin:It's the same thing. It's amazing. It's all it's all the same. It's all the same. That's what we learned on the train, man.
justin:Yeah. But,
leon:yeah, that was that was really beautiful. I mean, I'm gonna try and find the album if
justin:I can. Yeah. Sounds great. Also this, like I mean, I think about the the the dog episode that had the the Mina Fasetti track on it too. Oh, yeah.
justin:Yeah. Like, just the the the power of, like, over emotive vocals to just like Yeah. Yeah, kinda give you a a Yeah. Like, something you need. Like, it's like a vitamin.
Jacob:You know? Like, just
justin:like I just need that that those vitamins sometimes.
Jacob:I'm a I'm such a sucker for that stuff. And that power that same power when you come home late, and she's like, where where have you been? Yeah.
justin:It's like, almost like it's that same kind of like It's and there is, like, a male equivalent of that too because, like, I would give, like, I go to Bobby Womack, you know, for the same same terrain. You know? Like, it's just, like, giving that yeah. It's it's too deep. That's great.
Jacob:Yeah. It's too deep.
justin:Man, quoted Mariah, Harry, John Gilmore Yeah. And someone else in the same all in one episode. It's great. It's a great pile of reference.
leon:So I'm gonna do the the vibe shift for the the last but it's not really a vibe shift, actually. But it's it's gonna bring it back a bit to the, I guess, the the more sound arty Mhmm. Thread, but it's a short one, and it's also a banger. This is Milan Grigar with a very, very short piece called the Acoustica Cresiba a 15 from 1968.
justin:I don't want it to stop.
leon:Yeah. I know. The the piece is really, really short, but, I mean, it's, an excerpt from, you know, much longer pieces one can presume. But wasn't that beautiful?
Jacob:It's incredible. What to find this guy. I just, like, went and googled him. He's amazing graphic designer, and his artwork is just amazing. I've
justin:we have to use that album cover for the epic. It's the most beautiful album cover I've ever seen.
Jacob:His graphic design is incredible.
leon:So this is like I I mean, this just goes to show the the bubbles that we live in, but Milan Grigor is, like, basically the John Cage of of the Czechoslovakian John Cage. He started off as a as a painter and was making abstract art and started recording his drawings started recording himself drawing Wow. Which is kind of a throwback
justin:to to It's amazing. Yeah. It's so good.
leon:And then it was just like another step to having the drawings become the recordings. Yeah. So or rather the the the recordings becoming the drawings. He he started, like, miking things that could make leave traces and stuff. And so he basically has these So awesome.
leon:These constructions to to make leave graphic traces, and that's the that's the recording. And he he also did a whole bunch of other stuff, but this this piece is fantastic. And it it was released in 1968 as a seven inch. He released, I think, a couple of seven like, literally two seven inches, and that's that explains the brevity of the of the tracks. But I think there's a more recent compilation of his stuff and of exclusively his stuff, and some of his stuff also wound up in a compilation called The Body Electric, I think, about Eastern European sounder.
Jacob:Well, he's still alive too. '98.
justin:Yeah. Yeah. Have we have just answered the question at the beginning of this episode about whether we're gonna keep going or not because I need to get to episode 200 because every episode with you guys, I'm, like, discovered this whole new universe of shit that I wanna live with for the rest of my life. Yeah. Fuck.
justin:Thank you, Leon. That was incredible.
leon:Like Yeah.
justin:What a what a and now I'm like, wow. New rabbit hole. Yeah. Is so exciting. Like, what a find.
Jacob:How did how
justin:did you get here?
leon:So it's still the same thing. Like, because I I don't I don't really read I I I don't keep track of stuff apart from Blastitude, basically, which is my the only my only regular intake of of music journalism. The other stuff I really just like to and I don't again, I don't wanna give props to any kind of platform, but just the the Internet record library that shall not be named. I just go wandering in there.
justin:Thank you for this for this great deep traveling that you do. It's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We really, all of us, thank you.
justin:It's great for these adventures.
leon:There there are some because of the the the way that that site is built, are some amazing ways to stumble across things. And so yeah.
Jacob:That's What I find.
justin:What I'm just like
Jacob:I'm just looking through his Yeah.
leon:Yeah. Yeah. It's it's amazing. It's amazing. I mean, a lot of it is performance based.
leon:He he does obviously, his drawings become graphic scores that are then taken up by by ensembles later on. So it's like a manifold manifold Really inspiring, this stuff. Yeah. And 1968, I mean, it's like, you know, you hear the the kinda I mean, is the wrong word, but, like, kinda tinkering, you know, sound art thing. And then the the feedback and all that, it's like it gives a whole So good.
leon:Other texture to it. You know?
Jacob:Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing.
justin:No. It's like yeah. It's it's really fantastic. So I have finally the moment to do what you have so much, and I'm very excited about it. I'm going to bring the what the fuck in such a good one.
justin:It's like, I've been saving this one, and this is the right moment for it. So pretty exciting to do this. I
Funkmaster Flex:want problems. I do not want peace. We are quiet tonight. I want problems. Do not want peace.
Funkmaster Flex:Sit down, Orlando. You're part of the problem. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Give me a second, New York.
Funkmaster Flex:Today is my favorite day of the week. I look forward to coming down here. I stay in my house all day with a dirty t shirt with ketchup stains. Before I come down here, I go to the Audrey car wash in the big 800 horsepower Charger Redeye. Yeah.
Funkmaster Flex:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With the wide body kit. You know what it is.
Funkmaster Flex:Then I drive down on the West Side Highway. Yes, sir. No. That's what I do. That's what I do.
Funkmaster Flex:Okay? How you like that? You like that, New York? New York City. If you're on that West Side Highway, that Bronx River, that Cross Bronx, that Garden State, this right here, I'm a drop a mixtape.
Funkmaster Flex:Yo, you know what? New York City, your clue, I'm gonna beat you to this or you can beat me to it. I'm dropping a free mixtape at some point. Somebody holler at DJ Clue to drop a tape. Because if he don't do it, I'm gonna do it.
Funkmaster Flex:I'm gonna drop a free mixtape with 30 exclusives on vinyl and CD. I'm just saying.
FunkmasterFlex:Motivation music. Music like that is when you go through the McDonald's drive through, you get to the window, the lady turns up back, you grab the food, you don't pay. You see exactly what I'm saying right
justin:there? We
FunkmasterFlex:have another major announcement, and I'm I'm sorry to say this today, but I think I have to because the music list is getting too long in this little forty minute segment. Moving forward. It's too many songs and it's too much unreleased music. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, good evening. Let's get back to our scheduled arrogant music right here.
Jacob:Oh, Jesus. God.
justin:Wow. This is the music that makes me happier than anything. I'm so grateful for death death by sheep records from New York City who are to me the greatest humans. This is, like, the best scene. This is the something for the blunted mixed tape sampler mix 2022 to 2023.
justin:Really sick underground scene in New York. This was my yeah. I I've been listening to these records for since, like, just before COVID. I got into these guys. I have the entire discography of this label.
justin:They do I mean, I just like, they're just so amazing. And and this is, of course, Punkmaster Flex. They, really famous hip hop DJ from New York. They the guy who recorded there's a great one of the other releases on Death by Sheep is just, like, Punkmaster Flex with bombs dropping off and no music at all. Just Are you are you serious
leon:about Yeah.
justin:The at this
leon:I was I was wondering because, you know, there's, like, big funk master flex written on the cover, and I'm like, there's no way this is funk master flex.
justin:Yeah. It's it's he's he's just recording that. I would, like, cutting out the dropping it into the mix tape. It's so good. It's so good.
justin:And the the Funkmaster Flex tape is also completely insane and so fun. Yeah. They're like, I cannot. And this scene apparently is really, really cool. Like, I mean, I'm I'm obviously have not been to any of their parties or anything, but it's, I've done a bit of reading online, and it sounds amazing.
justin:So, like, mad mad props. And, you know, they're also really super, like, New York hates you. Don't come here. Like, don't come in record scene. That's amazing.
justin:I love this. This is such a favorite for me.
leon:So appropriate for our times. Yeah. Like, just bring the problems, man. Yeah.
justin:I don't want peace.
Jacob:Yeah. That was incredible. Wow.
leon:Wow. That was really energizing.
justin:Yeah. I I'm ready for my Sunday now.
leon:Oh, man.
Jacob:I'm not gonna be able to follow-up to this. No.
leon:I don't I don't think that was the point, Jacob.
justin:There's nothing I could do. I could I could in here.
leon:Holy shit. But it it's funny because that was, like, a total loop back to about you in CrowdStrike.
justin:Yeah. Yeah. For sure. For sure. Oh my god.
justin:Wow. To get them collaborating. Like, Yeah. Pete
leon:Pete. That was like that was totally, the the the fireball in the sky. It's Yeah. Incredible.
Jacob:Yeah. It's it's it's refreshing to get that energy back. It's like I have it's it's rare that I get confronted with that kind of I think the last step was maybe like stuff I had heard from, like, you know, like Egypt shabby, like, or whatever you call it, like, this ghetto stuff you get from those kinds of parts where it sounds like that. And this is so great to hear from from New York.
justin:Oh, you know what? Can I can I go
leon:on a tiny little tangent?
justin:Of mean, you
leon:know, I just see you guys just once a month, so there's
justin:a lot
leon:happens in a month. Yeah. This the the the whole anarcho crusty aspect of this reminded me. I just watched the decline of Western civilization documentaries by Penelope Spears. The whole series?
leon:Yeah. There's, like, three of them. There's, like, two that are really well known, like, from the the early eighties. And she put out another one, like, in '98, which is maybe a little less well known, which centers on, like, the the gutter punk scene in LA that was, like, prevalent in the late nineties. And it's an amazing amazing documentary.
leon:I mean, the whole series the whole series is is is fantastic. I mean, I have so much respect for for for her work, the way that she just is able to just be real with everyone and but at the same time, be as it's not a fly in the wall because she's active actively participating in the in the scenes that she's that she's witnessing, obviously. But, yeah, the the the gutter plank documentary kind of was a little bit less focused on the music and halfway through focuses on the the actual kinda the the the people behind that that scene that are not necessarily musicians. And it's a really it's a little bit difficult. You know, there's a lot of hard situations in there, but it's it's a really fantastic documentary.
leon:So shout out to Penelope's Fears.
justin:We'll put a link in the show notes. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. What why do you think that last one didn't get the same coverage as the rest of them?
leon:I think, possibly because of the the cult status that the first two
justin:got,
leon:and maybe people didn't feel like the the the scene that was being documented at that time was as as important, quote unquote, as as the other two. The one
justin:was the hair metal. What was the first one again? It was
leon:It was the the punk scene with Right. Like, the germs and
justin:Right. Right.
leon:Right. And the bags and everyone. And it's with, like, some of the last scenes of Darby crash Wow. Wow. Before before his death.
leon:It's it's I mean, that that that one is really amazing because also in every single one, there's a scene of an interview in a kitchen with someone frying an egg. Like, in all three of them. And it turns out that that's like the egg the fried egg is like the one thing that musicians know how to do. That's true.
justin:It's true.
leon:Yeah. But, yeah, it's I I I had a lot of I was really happy to revisit those documentaries. I I we I mean, people who have seen the documentaries often remember how kind of funny, you know, it is or how kitschy some of it is. But it's actually really good filming. Yeah.
leon:And really, like, it reaches, you know, way beyond the the front that all the the characters are putting up and and touches on some some much more fundamental human level, which
Jacob:is Beautiful.
leon:Amazing. Yeah.
justin:Wow. Gotta revisit those. That's great.
Jacob:Me too.
justin:Yeah. Me too. Yeah.
leon:Sorry. That was just a little Beautiful.
justin:No. I'm sorry. Thanks. Great. It brought the energy down so we can change the we don't have to stay at
Jacob:The the tangents are great for that.
leon:Setting it up for Jacob.
justin:Oh, Jesus. Yeah. You got room now, Jacob.
Jacob:Is I got room to maneuver.
justin:You got room, Tony. Or you had none before. No.
Jacob:Had none. Take me on. At the time, I wasn't listening to much of it, but then she came to Cracow and she played a show here, which was incredible. It was it I I was blown away by her, well, her music, her personality. And then I listened to the records being so excited.
Jacob:And, you know, there's sometimes this thing that happens where it's like the records don't catch that.
justin:That's the life. Yeah.
Jacob:You don't catch the life. And then the magic of the life is really something incredible with that particular musician. So I'll play actually a piece that's off of YouTube, which is a live rendition of a of a song from this person because I think that just captures it. And it's so magical and so ethereal and really, really wonderful. So here, I'm gonna share my screen.
Jacob:So maybe that'll end our day nicely, or at least my day is the end of the day. Maybe it's a good beginning for you guys in The UK. So here we go. So that was Josephine Foster during her February. This was in Prague, but I think she played a well, she played Krakow, obviously.
Jacob:But what an incredible voice. What an incredible Yeah. And she's she's like her music too when you see her live. She's completely out of this world. She doesn't she's completely from some other space.
Jacob:It's really, really wonderful.
leon:Yeah. I was I felt it was funny watching the live video because I I was almost gonna start clapping. That was so pretty.
Jacob:So pretty.
leon:It was really nice to to hear hear that again.
justin:Yeah. Haven't seen her in a long time.
Jacob:Yeah. Nor have I. And then, you know, it just so happened someone kind of, you know, inspired me to go, and I was completely floored actually at the show. I was very floored. And and I love her harmonica playing too.
Jacob:It's got, like, just like microtones. Oh, yeah. It's so great.
justin:So great.
leon:Yeah. And I I do remember, like, selling a lot of her records at the store. And that's awesome. It's great that people were more interested. I remember I actually have a very vivid memory of it playing in the store and someone at the cash looking at me rolling their eyes and going like, woah.
leon:Some people don't really know how to sing in tune
Jacob:to things.
leon:And it was like No. Oh, man. Well, you really What?
justin:Is esoteric. That's crazy.
leon:Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, got all kinds of esoteric. It's true. It's true.
justin:But you
Jacob:know what's crazy? What's what's crazy is that I noticed that she she speaks out of tune, actually. It's amazing. Because, like, she she, like, she she almost, like, sounds like, like, I don't know if I can do it just, but she's
justin:like, hello. Hi. I really like being here.
Jacob:Like, that's what she sounds like. Oh, wow. Amazing. Really. She totally sounds like her music.
justin:I mean, there is something like, I always think about that Derek Bailey, like, the guitar is difficult instrument to tune. Forget about legs. It's very hard to tune the guitar. And it it is. And the guitars are always out of tune in every live recording you hear.
justin:And there was something really magical about the way that she sings the guitar is particularly out of tuneness and the harmonic is microtones. It just makes this, like Yeah. Glorious mountain of harmonics that's, like, just too good to be real.
Jacob:It's amazing. It's unreal.
justin:Really, really. So beautiful. And I think that also may be part of what makes the live better than the recording. Yeah. Absolutely.
justin:So you've got all that kind of like, man, when she started playing harmonica, I'm like, has she ever played a harmonica before? And then it's, like, really, like, super sophisticated. But just the kind of, like, awkward Yeah. Like, leaning into something that's then just magical. Like, so beautiful.
Jacob:And she's genuinely, like, at least when I started, like, super shy and really kind of not you can tell she doesn't really she's
leon:not at
Jacob:ease, and so that comes out in the music too. This kind of tentativeness. It's just so beautiful.
leon:Yeah. I I
justin:It's such an interesting sorry. Go ahead, Liam.
leon:I I don't mean to take anything away at all from from what we just listened to because it was really, really beautiful. But I I was reminded. I had the the privilege, the opportunity to to see Kath Bloom recently. I mean, this was a couple months ago. She was in Montreal playing.
leon:And it was in that that whole everything that was that we just evoked about the the the voice and the harmonica, the guitar, everything, like, coexisting on on separate kind of planes just sliding into each other. Yeah. And yeah. So that was on full on display. Yeah.
justin:Where was that at? I'm so sorry to miss that.
leon:It was an amazing show in Verdun at the bank, that venue Wow. That's been running since the eighties. I I think it's mostly theater oriented.
justin:Yeah. Yeah.
leon:Some, you know, shows have been put on there. So it was, like, super intimate setting. There were about, like, maybe, you know, 20 or 30 people in the audience because it could only fit that many people. Wow. But yeah.
leon:And she was she had this young young guy touring with her who's who's kinda, like, taking care of the merch and taking care of setting up everything and super good guitarist and, you know, accompanying her with the with some backing vocals and, like, kinda reminding her when whenever she would, like, forget the lyrics and stuff. I'm kinda, like, hushing hushing the the the lyrics to her. And then she was accompanied by a couple other musicians that were just, like, who were getting picked up for the rest of the tour, but had never played together. Wow. And they just, like, kinda play it on stage
Jacob:That's incredible.
leon:For the first time. And everyone's just, like, respectfully, you know, just, like, following you know, just picking up on on the the leads and stuff, and it was a truly, truly magical show. But it had that that balance of, like, the electricity created by fragility. You know?
justin:Yeah. It's it's funny because that also can cut either way. Like, I mean, my favorite example of that going both directions is, like, seeing cat power three or four different times and it being just garbage a couple times, but just being, like, utterly terrible. And then Mhmm. Also some like, one of the best shows I ever saw in my life was a was a show where and, you know, you just it was, like, the line of walking with that is so interesting too.
justin:Like, it's, like, why does it turn into magic sometimes?
leon:And Mhmm.
Jacob:Yeah. That's beautiful, actually.
justin:Other times not. Like, it's really, really fascinating. I'm not sure.
leon:I I think it might that might be part of the magic is Yeah. Just the the imminent danger.
justin:Yeah. Yeah.
leon:It's just being felt. You know? Yeah. But that that was beautiful, Jacob. Thank Yeah.
leon:Me. Playing that. It's a wonderful way to to round out the show too.
justin:Yeah. A great show. Once again, an amazing episode. Thanks, guys. Like, episode 13.
justin:It's great.
leon:Yeah. Lucky 13.
justin:I mean,
leon:we're definitely lucky to be able to do this on a regular basis.
Jacob:It's such a pleasure.
justin:It's so great to see you guys.
Jacob:Yeah. Yeah. Every time. Every
justin:single time.
leon:So everyone come back same place, same time next next month. Yeah. We'll catch everyone on the other side.
Jacob:Yeah. We'll be here.